EPISODE 1: Ben Timmons

#1: Ben worked with George at Amazon for just under 2-years before heading over to Kraft Heinz. He set up his first Amazon business during 2016, has just launched a second, and has a third and fourth in the pipeline.

In this episode we discuss:

  • Building out your brands identity and ensuring it’s consistency across channels
  • Big takeaways from working at Amazon
  • How to be aggressive with your Amazon strategy
  • The importance of localisation when expanding overseas
  • Starting on Amazon with £900

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Click here for the RAW unedited transcript
[0:00:12] George: 
 Today we have our very first guests of the podcast. Ben Timmons been actually worked with me at Amazon literally sat next to me every day for two years as we move from the FBA team over to Seller Fulfilled Prime a bit of PAN EU. Then we both end or Amazon career after a long stint setting up Amazon Business. Now I’d like to think that Ben Timmons and I were quite the dynamic jury from a sounds perspective. But then again, I’m sure there were times our first manager thought we were simply a bunch of numpty who spent too long at the gym during the lunch break and should have actually bean back in the hour long period. Now, that being said, Ben Timmons has gone on some strong things onto parted ways. It was a senior account manager at Kraft Heinz and now holds ahead of European business development position Jim Paths. In addition to that, he makes an excellent guest as he’s built two brands out from scratch on as a firmness position is Amazon choice for over two years for of his products in a competitive category. 

Now, without further ado, let’s see, he’s got to say, Okay, so, Ben Timmons, we’ve obviously already had a little bit of a chit chat Shit and work. And you’ve shown me a disgraceful haircut, which we’ve now got rid off. Now, down to the serious stuff. A podcast number one on It’s what did I name the podcast? It’s always Day One. That was it. Spot stop. It’s a waste and one. So I named it. I really like the idea. Now. I just got stuck. It seems I started recording. All right. Professionalism is I’ve got about 8 to 10 questions would see how quickly rattled through them today. 

Okay, so one that I’ve enjoyed asking during my little warm up to this, which I think you’re like, is 

You’re allowed one hour a day to master a skill. What skill would you choose and why?

[0:02:17] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, actually, of all the question seven, it’s about the one that I spent the most time pondering over on DH. I made the one skill to learn would be to learn languages. Um, aside, languages plural. That’s obviously very optimistic outcome, I think the ability to learn the language. I’m not trying to send so many different parts off your life. It’s faras leisure business travel on just I’m not so many more doors for you. It’s a spy’s career aspirations and someone as well that then you might not otherwise be able to access and also looking in the world off e commerce, you know, essentially now developing my total market size, my markets essentially anywhere that speaks English. So you look at America, the UK, Australia, on some other miscellaneous countries. If you can add an additional language that then struck by your total market size that you can explore on your own back grows as well. So for May I love the French language without a wife. I’m rubbish at it. But yeah, that’s what nations that speak that speak French if I was able tto use that known as iPod, a world of possibilities as faras travel. But Sosa market restoration as well grows, grows with that as well.

[0:03:38] George: 
 How would that be if you’re just thinking e commerce who you like, right? Well, if I can learn the language of the France, Germany, Spain, et cetera, it’s going to make my transition to create relationships, Let’s say, but B to B relations for some of your politics in those markets much easier. It’s always going to be easier to communicate with locals who could then do a much better job. But localising your content in that certain thing rather than yeah, You’ve always got the risk with translating any sort of product or content that it could be rubbish, right? No one actually knows. Any idea is a good translation. You could just take someone’s word for it, based on the number Review is. Whereas if you’ve kind of got a bit of an understanding of the language, is that part of your logic as well?

[0:04:26] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, 100% Think the B2B aspect is something super important as well. There’s nothing quite as as nice or is easier said. I love the product in bulk among go and to build those relationships that you know people buy from people. If you can’t speak the language, it’s always when the barrier, No one particularly gets off on speaking to Google. Translate. I was in the localisation piece. No consumer market is super super important as well. We’ll never look in the UK a certain feelings, you know, play on words, idealism it is and local dialect a little bit of slam. You look at the Oxford Dictionary editions that come in each year, and it’s words that don’t even translate it solve things. So there’s all those aspects that come into as well to make sure that you’re talking to the right demographic within that as well. So what about the product age group of people that I sell to? I want to know what they’re speaking in the local language and not just, you know, I have a pet dog, what that translates to, because that’s not particularly applicable. So it’s having that ability to make it to make it really, really tangible.

[0:05:30] George: 
 This is what I’ve always liked. The term whenever we think about Amazon or in comments and said I don’t see is translating, cause translating is I have a dog in French, whereas they may actually have a completely different way of structuring that sentence or different mannerism relating to it. When you still start to speak it in the kind of native tongue rather straight translation of the Mets, so much is gonna get lost in translation. We’ve all seen those nightmare marketing campaigns from companies all over the world that should have been incredibly insulting or just comical on DH. That is always going to get lost. I think you also then run. The risk is well of like, if your translation is the straight translation is the product perceived to be something that it isn’t on? Does that they relate, increase a likely looking like negative reviews, bad press or bad experiences, which could then come back to bite you severely on Amazon as well as so many other places.

[0:06:30] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, 100%. And there’s a kind of famous quote from purple cow but by Seth Godin that says, You know, like everyday products already gone. Andi, a product for everyone, is designed for no. One, and that’s such a poignant sentiment, not Justin the products that you design and sell, but in how you approach that as well. If that means that a marketing campaign not great, but this fantastic new product, I think across Europe I’m gonna take the same approach, and I go to market strategy and my advertising strategy on hope that works in all countries, and if you have that, you’re just having a very naive and ignorant mindset because what works in Bavaria is gonna be very, very different to what works in Birmingham. So you know that every day every person approach doesn’t work on exactly as you say. You need that localisation aspect, not just translation, because it’s not just words on a paper. It’s how they resonate with people as well.

[0:07:25] George: 
 No good answer. It’s an interesting when I heard about that question twice so far, and it’s always been slightly different response of the language once, certainly interesting as well. All right, let me rattle onto the necks when you are something you do to consulting as well on DH. Obviously spent Tom your Amazon looking out brands on a regular daily basis, thinking how we can sell for them. But from looking at from it’s slightly different perspective now, when you when you first interact with a look of that sometime in a moment showing,

[0:07:58] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, sorry. It’s what happens when you live in s it. Unfortunately, a City Council

[0:08:06] George: 
 s when you first look at on Amazon brand, what’s what’s the first thing you’re going, Tio. It’s going to be back under the account front, and it could be all families in. If you’re looking to consult them, help them analyse what they’re doing. What what is your jumping on first?

When you start working with a brand on Amazon, what do you look at first?

[0:08:23] Ben Timmons: 
 Yes, it’s really a question. I get kind of about two point made. Things will be different for every for every business. The way I look at, I think the 1st 1 is looking off Amazon is is everything that’s available off Amazon on Amazon, and you would have counted as opposites. Well, we’re the Amazons and supported small medium businesses thie amount of times they would just dip their toe in and put 5 10% of their inventory on Amazon. It just doesn’t work because what works on your own Web site may not be the same as what? Well, it’s an Amazon. So firstly, once mentioned that you have that that breath of offering and that everything that you have available to sell was there for customers. So to find that explore, that’s the first checkpoint. Certainly beyond that is, is looking things like brand identity on brand image. You should, you know, apart from the fact that it’s laid on Amazon Web site, should be to look at an Amazon listing and certainly an Amazon storefront Amazon enhance brown content and, you know, have them on the same screen next to the to the owners of website. And that should be as near as makes no difference between those two. So everything which his identity imagery, typography, whatever that may be, should be absolutely the same. And the whole idea for that is, you know, forever, consciously or subconsciously, you start to build that affinity in that association with the customer and your brand. So when you start to capture them things off Amazon in advertising, whatever that may be, they start to have that that report with your brand reputation yet 100% and I think that’s that’s what’s really cares. A lot of people now you know there’s still the the old mindset that Amazon is just a retail arbitrate marketplace. You know, there’s no opportunity to build a brand, and that’s that’s not true. Certainly not the last 18 months, two years before the tours available, Framers and cellars. So that’s that’s one bit on the third and final Bit is, as you said in the back end of the account, is what’s actually gone into building this business. So what keywords would be looking out is probably the first, the most important part that could have been so often there’s. There’s a real lack off understanding of what goes into building that listing its, you know, just Fline keywords on a listening and hoping that that’s what people are searching for without using on. The tours are available to you in the market to understand what your customers searching before so you can capitalise that traffic. So again, it’s all well and good making the sexiest product list in the world’s ever seen. But if no one’s going to see it, there you go. Yeah, who cares? Think three key pillars sank.

[0:11:04] George: 
 I think that’s so interesting. Like I think it’s sitting Amazon. Answer. You’ve gone with their for that first bit on DH. It is. The other two people I spoke to was a kind of a warm up to doing the podcast. They know something that question. They said exactly the same feeling. A different question. No. And that was Don’t dip your toe with Amazon and it’s so interesting that you again coming through it from having worked on the inside of Amazon, having understood what kind of makes out with and work a little bit better than perhaps a mother’s giving that same answer of And this is like from speaking to vender manage Isabella’s new account managers on the seller side of the business. All of them are saying, You can’t just dip your toe, you gotta go, go, go, go, go all in on this rather kind of doing half a job or just trialling it are experimenting on that. So to remember, we always had that sat at our disposal when people used to argue, while I’ll give it a go off. Well, actually, what we find is, if one product is doing well, you’ve got one. Put it on there. Even if you add 99 additional products and they don’t sell a single unit, you’re going to sing increases sales on that one unit or that one skewed because the other 90 Niner existing on DH. That’s kind of the data behind it. It’s so interesting that I don’t haven’t I haven’t I don’t It’s not the first thing I look at that. I think it’s a very founded point of holdup. You’ve only actually got part of your selection on there Yeah, that’s a really interesting thing you’ve pointed out there.

[0:12:39] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, I think just to build on that as well. Quite often I have friends or family asking, but why don’t you use when you go on eBay? I want you on Etsy when they’re not on the high street. Thank you. That’s not to say that I haven’t fought about those and that I won’t necessarily use those platforms in the future. But I’d rather do one thing first and absolutely Nallet with 100%. No, I’ve built the based on this. I’d built it up to where it needs to be a point when it’s self sufficient and sustainable, and from that point, it’s just iterated on optimising. What I wouldn’t want to do is put a load of time and effort across 45 marketplaces and have 20% no 30% of what they’re capable of doing. Actually put in those marketplace in the first point, which you know, for me, it’s just not an efficient use of time. Why did why do loads of things averagely when you do one thing really, really well? Mark after one side, bring event ring, fence it for the time being and then move on to the next patient. I want to be 100% committed on one focus and not spread myself too thin. So

[0:13:41] George: 
 focus thing is now. I think that’s such a big really applies to so many other things we all find ourselves, even when it comes to the business. I run the business you’re in now as well, Like it’s focusing on something and giving that your entire attention. That could be for an hour. It could be for a week. It could be for a month. But if you’ve got that undivided attention on one area, you’re going to see a lot more success. A rather than, OK, let’s try and do 10 marketplace at once. That’s an interesting one. Understand what drugs

[0:14:15] Ben Timmons: 
 do all at once as well, and then take the same approach to all of them. It comes back to the

[0:14:19] George: 
 point you work well. That’s another valid point on the identity one that’s that’s also really interesting, Like I look at it, but I’ve never really described in that way. In terms of Do you have that brand identity, which is this commonalities across all of your content on if you have them side by side. Nothing give you are a practical list since this you wanna be yet those two screens up on don’t wanna have your Amazon detailed page and you be a store front on the other. Have your website on some of those pages for your products on there and be like, Is there some notable difference if there is, Let’s try to sink that up, because when you are then putting ads out on social media prince email, whatever the case may be that consistent. A brand message that could be through colours. It could be for a text. It could be through images or whatever the case may be that consistency is going away to resonate much, much more in whatever you’re doing with kind of outreach or whatever the case may be

[0:15:20] Ben Timmons: 
 and upset

[0:15:22] George: 
 on the final one year. You right? Building those foundations is such a big thing. A lot of people who start on Amazon and the like, Oh, come starting. Let me get the listing up there. We get it running, but they don’t really know what they’re targeting what their focus should be on like one of the big questions I ask is like, What? What key word to your top five that you’re going after. Most of the time I get the response. I’m not sure because no other forefront of their mind. And that’s not because they’ve got a collection of 1000 products they don’t know what’s up with that. Had a lot of time. It could be smaller brands. And I don’t know, really, I should know that you’re right. I should know that I’m not well, unless you know what you’re going after. How do you ever expect to achieve your goal of getting ranked on page one for those terms? If you’re not sure, they are.

[0:16:06] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, exactly. And past that point, any changes you make, you’re not, you know, improving. Strategically, you are just guessing and stabbing in the dark. Lord, let’s try this key road in the mixtures for a laugh without actually knowing whether it’s gonna be Ben Timmonseficial or no. So just making sure that everything you do is imperative backed up

[0:16:24] George: 
 Soto. So the next one is probably does apply because I know at the moment you’re working on some new ideas that will undoubtedly go into your either existing AMAs and store or to another one. What you looking to start, which would probably make your food starting with nothing but tang grand at this point inside, would you start on Amazon business? You get £10,000 cash. Throwed at you is the first thing you do go start on Amazon business. Or would it be something else?

If you were given £10,000 would you start an Amazon business?

[0:16:56] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, it’s really a question on getting one that kind of spent a while mulling over. I mean, for me, it’s interesting because my my first Amazon business I started with just under £900. So to be in a position to start with 10-K would pay a very, very a desirable situation.

[0:17:15] George: 
 But when did you start? That’s worthy of note.

[0:17:18] Ben Timmons: 
 When Sorry. Yeah. Ah, originally started at the back end off 2016

[0:17:25] George: 
 so that Zoe’s definitely have note because the investment levels are different than sponsor pot. It was only just kicking off in the UK if I’m correct because we were pitching ourselves, I am, Yeah. So that is a different game, but continuing I

[0:17:42] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, so I think plus, for me personally, and this is not set sail her on. I would always look at Amazon ahs, a route to market for any product based business, and that’s for a number of reasons. The 1st 1 is that again, my personal situation is I still have a full time job. So my goal isn’t to build a business that’s as big as possible, but one that bothers me as little as possible. So one knife and manage 20 minutes for two minutes a week, and all I need to do essentially is manage inventory levels and the Customs Service. So Amazon is incredible for that, for it’s you know, it’s a marketplace for film bombers and services and so on. I think that’s a model that’s really hard to replicate elsewhere. Yes, you can invariably make more money on your own website, but you need to leverage things like economies of scowl. You need toe, look into things like Seo PPC and have a good understanding of that kind of ties in to my to my next piece as well. But so that’s the question that 10-K I would spend firstly by was the first time I would spend on educational content going to go back to the point. We just made that people make a listing salami on Amazon, sit back and wait for the money to come in. And often that doesn’t happen. So I’d spend that money on educating myself, which I still do now to understand what are the foundational things, what the key pillars that I must have in place in order for that to work. Because that man that money, you’ll get exponential return on investment from because that’s information that you can apply it time and time again. The second picture would bay around digital assets, so I would almost take price is no. No. Price is no issue approach to have him fantastic quality images, fantastic quality banners, infographics renders, whatever that may be. I would spend whatever amount of money needs to be invested there in order to obtain those assets, because again, as far as our why those especially on Amazon, it’s probably the highest contributing factor on one of the rial ki different shaitan factors between you and another brand or part of the soul by Amazon. I think now we talked about building my brand of Amazon, and essentially what you’re trying to do is prevent being commoditised and having fantastic quality digital. Sir, this is a real Qiwei to do that on the third him that I was spent that money on is again haven’t going back to the support. Peace is having someone to help in the world of digital marketing. So having someone support and building advertising campaigns understand this structure off how advertising campaigns are built, how you would test them, how you would it’s right on that strategy don’t necessarily have the exact specific knowledge that you would need in order to do that. Really, really successfully. That’s not a pivotal to your success on Amazon. So that’s where I’d spend my 10 grand across those those three pillars,

[0:20:45] George: 
 I think. Sojo, I often say to people like Sometimes it’s even more important than even speaking to me. First is understanding that I can give you all the advice, but unless you’ve got a brilliant content, it doesn’t really matter what I tell you. I could give you the perfect little flow to go through the perfect final, the best way to get reviews and all these sort of things. But if you’ve got a dreadful content that people land the new listing, and they just don’t want to buy it. It’s not compelling enough. You haven’t invest in your your graphics, your copywriter. Whatever the case may be, then you’re never going to convert anyone. If you can’t convert anyone, you could have a ll the other things in play of the best operations, the best customer service, you could have the best Facebook campaign and expert on Amazon appetising. None of that matters if you can’t build like customers, so entirely agree with that digital asset, and I got somebody. Other points you’ve made there is if you don’t know how to spend your money even quickly, waste that. It’s like me wanting to start Facebook advertising to make more money for myself and drive more traffic on just going at it with 10 grand. Sure, I may get some traffic, but it could cost me £100 email instead of £2 on email, because I’ve got no idea what I’m doing on that’s so important that if you go at it and you know, educating yourself on, you don’t know what to do. You can quickly burn through that cash, and you know it’s fortunate. Perhaps as you were when you started where you can make mistakes on DH. It doesn’t cost quite a cz much. It did before to get that traffic. And you could do a lot more of organic and you could building slower. Now, you need to be a bit more aggressive in order to ramp up the same sort of pace that you ramped up five or so years ago.

[0:22:33] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, absolutely. Spot on

[0:22:36] George: 
 s o interesting point on top of this. Then I’m mixing up the questions. Just so is a nice little variety of were bouncing around a bit. But what do you think? The biggest threat turned Amazon businesses right now? When I said I was in business, I don’t mean like a W s. I mean, like someone who is a business on Amazon.

What do you think is the biggest threat to an Amazon business right now?

[0:22:54] Ben Timmons: 
 Sure. Yeah. Again. Really good port question. I I kind of alluded to this in my in my last answer. But the biggest threat is by allowing ourselves to be commoditised, and people are not necessarily being commoditise. It is a real threat. Go on, Ali Baba Ali Express. And you’re about to see that anyone could be commoditised forever. Quickly, you’ll find the exact same pair of trainers that Nike sells for £150 on Alibaba for $3. The only difference is there were X amount Mohr because they have a great big tip on the side, and that all comes down to one thing, which is Brandon and Brad Equity. So for me, the biggest threat is not leveraging all of the tools the Amazon make available to you. And I say this so frequently, which is cell Is that for some reason, don’t use enhanced brown content or Les plus content, and that maybe because they don’t they don’t know how to use it. They don’t know what it even is or how to obtain it again. That’s where the educational piece comes back into it. They might not have a storefront again that they’re missing out on whole of, ah, another pillar there. They’ve been using sponsored brands in the storefront journey anyway, I think, especially when you look up some items in the Amazon basics knows now is almost a business in itself. It’s essentially low cost items the Amazon has has made themselves, and why label you will never regarded. So you what you would never be able to compete with Amazon on the economy of scale. Basis isn’t the world’s richest human being for by by sheer chance. So if you can’t pay on economics, you need to come pay on the brand piece. And who, what, what come product. You got more compelled to buyer a mouse that says Amazon basics or a mouse that has phenomenal digital assets. And you really buy into the brand journey on the you know where that brand has come from and how it’s a small local business in the UK or, you know, whatever your brand storey, maybe, How do you pull the customer into that journey and into your storey? For them to build that affinity with your brand so that when they need another computer mouse for a gift or, you know, whatever that maybe they come back to yours without just searching through whatever commoditised computer mice,

[0:25:17] George: 
 I think you make a really good point. I’ve been using kind of the phrase recently when we talk about brands and building out those assets off. How you invoking an emotion? Andi, I think it’s something that Amazon basics isn’t necessarily do there no they’re not making you feel something. When you buy the products you’re going. It’s the same as buying something from prime up. For instance, where you like it does its job, but I have no care for it whatsoever. It means nothing to me was the brand where, perhaps in the packaging, you’ve got some quirky little comment where you’re a little bit of cheeky or fruity, or you’ve got some funny little line through away or you send them. And let’s say you’re selling a spirit, for instance, and you send them to a quick math class you’ve done on how to use a spirit and you creating some sort of experience post purchase, pre purchase, whatever the case may be like you said, pulling them into your storey. That’s what it’s always gonna lay to differentiate on DH. Why people would be happy to pay a little bit more, perhaps for yours, Van. What basics are Amazon themselves in a crate, or what some of the Chinese manufacturers who returning to Amazon because of the FBI opportunity are going to do? I think there is still that the big difference off the threat of China right now coming in on replicating products. I don’t think they’ve nailed thie the brand point yet, but I think there’s still a long way off nailing that because they’re focuses just on low prices.

[0:26:54] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, yeah, that’s in a certain Even you and I used to work for Amazon. That was always the concern that we would have from the SNP is that way would work with which is how does it not just become a race to the bottom? And the reality is quite frequently does. But it tends to do that again on commoditised or products that you’re reselling, which is where building your own brand equity no is is completely invaluable on, as you say, I completely agree. Yeah, the threat of settlers from the East is very real and very president, probably now, more than ever. Given that given the current economic state, they’re way ahead ofthe cell is based in the West as faras economic outputs and someone given they recovered a lot quicker. So it’s now more than ever this really important that we ensure that we have that that brand toe leverage and protect.

[0:27:45] George: 
 Absolutely, absolutely. Okay, so slightly different one to throw another curveball in there again. And you are somewhat Ben Timmonsefit because I didn’t send you the questions beforehand, which is kind of May, which I don’t think what we’re doing to people in the future. Foreseeable. On sweat. Yeah. Yeah. Piss sweat equity, eh? So what do you What do you do? Tto handle stress?

What do you do to handle stress?

[0:28:09] Ben Timmons: 
 Yes. Oh, I’m a little bit of a basic bloke when it comes to this. Um, my stress management routines consists off primarily four things. Um, the 1st 1 is just It’s just listen to music. I’m not going to talk to, you know, see my friends or family here. That’s phenomenal cliche. And anyone who doesn’t says that is a bit of an Iraq. So listening. Listen to music I am. Music has a phenomenal impact on your mood. It can really elevate you or make you feel like you’re in a, you know, a sad music video all at the same time. So it’s very powerful. I love reading. I set myself a goal to read 26 books a year. Really, Every 20 years I’ve been there many picture books, but that’s beside the point. I s Oh, I do that. So anyone point I’ll be reading a non fiction based book, which will be, of course, anything At the moment. It tends to be primary, random, financial well being and investments and so on. And then in the evenings before that, Abed, I read a novel, so I just have two books on about any one time on. I find that really, really help. So I do that first time when I wake up in the morning. So kind of set my day day off, right? Ah, usedto Once upon a time pre pre the Rhona I usedto do a lot of exercise, probably weightlifting, having to run a lot of the moment now, which I’m very begrudging about. But it’s better than nothing on four, you know, this is probably the most No, the answer on embarrassing one is gaming. I love PlayStation. I used to play when I was, you know, 12. 13 actually riddled Little teenager. Now not much has changed. Still that I am just a little bit older and OK about it, I guess especially now that you know, we can’t can’t see your friends or whatever. It may be a so, so great opportunity Just attracting mates never laugh and switch off. Yeah, exactly that is, is after that, it’s just switch him off. Should end of a lot of long days is nice to have. You can have a laugh while you’re doing it, then Temple in

[0:30:18] George: 
 Overwhelming and Cassie answers. I thought you’d have bean some yoga or something that would be honest with, absolutely with locked down. I thought you had the mat rolled out and down with dog. No, that’s a jazz, but I’m no gamer.

[0:30:32] Ben Timmons: 
 No, it’s not for me to understand what I’ve said to myself, probably for the last 15 years. At some point, I will do a yoga or Pallotti’s fast, and I just still haven’t mustered up the courage to do it. So far, I don’t, but right now it’s actually functional. Moore was a doorstop, that anything so wait for making progress.

[0:30:54] George: 
 Okay, so a couple couple more left. 

What one thing would you be doing right now to create sustainable success on Amazon?

[0:31:04] Ben Timmons: 
 yet really a question and I think my fault, said Prodi, don’t even necessarily replied sa reply specifically to Amazon. I think this is more broader Amazons, just kind of a facet of that the main thing for me here and we can talk about specific strategies and you know, whatever it may be and be very, very specific and I and our faults. But it’s having understanding off a flower pattern off megatrends. So for me, right now, we look at certain trends that happening in the UK or get in the West. When is our poor veganism you go back? Two years Percentage of people that followed a vegan diet were phenomenally low. Now it’s no more than a fad, and it’s something that continues to rise. I worked in food service for for 2.5 years, so I know just how important this is now becoming for consumers. We go on from that. We looked at him, was about Asian populations, our country’s off assistance, getting older. We’re living longer than ever, and we have a growing population, which means at the latter stages of the life cycle, we have a much higher population that never used to, and that’s going to continue to grow as faras medical and health care advances continuous Well, no one is around sustainability, and for me, that’s the key one here we see a lot of things about environmental pressures. Plastic plastic is simultaneously one of the most fantastic inventions ever on one of the worst inventions ever. So we’ll look at to see those types of things that we see you know, economic factor, social factors, whatever they may be. Where can I fit within that, or where can I use and leverage a piece of that within? Within my business, nothing familiar for Amazon sellers comes down to that Final one, which is around sustainability, and Patrick. Packaging can be a very expensive costs. For example, one of my businesses, Monarch Election the packaging was the single most expensive part of any other way cell. But that’s because we wanted Teo a create a brilliant customer experience that was very immersive and created that rule affinity with the brand from the moment you received the photo. And more importantly, we want it to be sustainable because we know that if everyone makes a difference or starts to make those positive changes than that compounds in time and and consumers are looking to make Muchmore no mind for choices. We’re looking for recyclable packaging. We’re looking for 100% recycled items. So that’s one thing that I would be looking at. How can you leverage megatrends, MoveOn, your approach and especially within within sustainability?

[0:33:43] George: 
 I think part of this comes down to kind of retention. Repeat customers, et cetera. On DH. If you’re doing that little thing that makes the customers go, Oh, there were there were quite conscious. Actually, that’s quite memorable, or the box is produced in this way or created this way or that Thinking about this. It’s just another comeback point, early Ron, of how you’re able to invoke an emotion. I even have it with something simple, like frustration free packaging, the Amazon introduced quite some time back. It’s such a simple thing. But the other day, when I receive something that was in frustration free, my frustration was almost elevated. Yeah, because I experienced was negative. This is the same token. Do you feel in perhaps even happens now? Like I went through a phase over the last few weeks of doing Hello. Fresh on just the amount ofthe cardboard and packaging, it came with that frustrated May. Yeah, on DH, you kind of honestly put me off using the product again. Not necessary just because of the inconvenience of getting with a load of boxes, which is another next of point. But because you’re like, you don’t want you don’t want that. You know, I’m not necessarily buying massively into this kind of sustainable packaging things, other people. But I do think wasted packaged items like that. It does my nut in an Amazon themselves out particularly good lead that the amount of times you know, you receive something from FBI on Dave. You know, you’ve got a phone charger wrapped up in something which could be a shoebox. Yeah, on DH, those small niggly points I think are gonna wear away and people wears on the flip side, if you have built out your model on your factoring that in your invoking that positive emotion which in turned leads toe higher return purchases or repeat purchase, I should say, rather than I’m not buy from them again, became with that cardboard was just annoying.

[0:35:50] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah. Yeah. And to your point is well, about like that. Have a fresh trail. Is just Society is as a whole, especially technology. Now where it removes barriers. No, I’ll going So before Corona, Anybody you know walking, swimming. But Donald’s I’ve let out a sigh because I’ve got to speak to someone for an order robin about chaos and order it myself. And that’s because I would have known that, you know, two years ago because there wouldn’t be any service chaos. But now that that Barry has been removed and I have that convenience and that ISA readily available, especially if you’re in an industry that’s competitive and your competitors are doing a far better than you removing those barriers, if someone does buy from you, they’re going to be even more mindful of those barriers that you’ve all those hurdles that they feel you’ve put up. Then they would hear my competitor. And similarly, if you’re if you’re on a level playing field for your competitors, that you need to be looking very intently on, okay, what’s the next barrier that I can remove? How can I make this customer journey even more soon? This even more enjoyable so that you are then different. Chase it as well

[0:36:54] George: 
 on with some of your Kraft Heinz before pretty flee. What things where they do is anything noticeable from that experience where you’re like oh, that they were actually pretty good with the beans, for instance, that ex wives that was there anything you remember or no.

[0:37:12] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, there’s a few bits I remember. I think the main mom’s around commercials, in fact, that just how it can’t possibly be that expensive tto make some source on. But the main hero ain’t there is probably testaments of Heinz on this actually was. If you look at the world of sources, for example, which is one of the 30 key pillars off Kraft Heinz, a lot of people in the old days what you see is glass bottles. That’s great. They look great, easy to recycle, less environmental impact. Fantastic. But there are not more expensive, and there are a lot less user friendly products out there are the local. Our Nando is trying to go three millilitres of

[0:37:49] George: 
 Kim Jong like you, a psychopath who

[0:37:51] Ben Timmons: 
 has, actually. But you have a PT bottle that was catch up. Fantastic is recyclable, but some of it is. But the lid isn’t and it’s actually more plastic in that lid than in the bottle, because how dense it is And the reason that plastic isn’t recyclable is because where the source comes out, there’s a tiny, tiny little bit of plastic which can’t be recycled. It means the whole thing can’t be recycled now, when you’re really in the tens and millions of bottles of source a year, that suddenly becomes quite big issue not only for you as a business but for the environment and the impact that you have there on how and spend unbelievably. I think it was almost eight years developing the solution for this, and the solution was so trivial you would afford. You know, a 10 year old could have come up with that in 10 minutes. But it’s because there’s so many complexities in the manufacturing process and so on. And it actually meant a very big overhaul in the whole manufacturing process for Kraft Heinz in order to make this change that it was more sustainable. So that was, you know, and it’s up for that. They were very forward thinking in that on hats off to them, for

[0:39:00] George: 
 I think this is what’s very important about you in this position. Now you’re your building at another brand of the moment with Marla Collection off. We’re making that decision early because we’re expecting in 34 years time to perhaps be a little bit more responsible of our impact. When we are selling a lot of these units every single day, month, year to then go back and go right, we’re going to change our whole process and completely redo it is much, much messier where I was getting it right first time and going to be quite conscious about it, Been the same token. The consciousness is cost to you, and not everyone is gonna be able to go. I’m weighing up one of the other right. It’s Do I keep the cost down on be able to make a bit more dollar because of it? Or sell a bit more a few more units? Or do I increase the cost of my packaging? The expense off? I may have to change in a few years. Well, when it becomes a must because of whatever,

[0:40:04] Ben Timmons: 
 Yeah, yeah, it’s a really appointed, you know, they’ll be factors outside of your control regulations, legislations, whatever it may be that the impact stuff that you have to change my mind set is always You know, I’d rather do summat once that have to do it now, then do it again later. And the best solution is prevention. So if you are in a position to do that but no dramatic on cost your business, then it’s always something that guy Rahman doing. But as you say that that will vary from person to person and business the business and it’s got something that’s that’s sustainable for you as well.

[0:40:35] George: 
 Good man. Well, no more questions from my part, and I did have a few others, but you’ve probably overlapped with your complex answers, which is certainly Why won’t be sharing them with you again in the future. Come on. They’re always too here for those answers. Yeah, exactly late. Well, any any questions for May I wouldn’t expect you to have, but I thought I’d ask you In any case,

[0:41:04] Ben Timmons: 
 I know the one that I will ask you is the one that you asked me. Which is if you had 10-K to build now wasn’t business. What would you do that? Because I’d be interested to get your perspective on this. Because I said you and I’ve had quite similar experience in helping people to build a business. You know that Yeah, that’s your bread and butter. That’s what you’re you’re an expert in now. But it’s something that I’m sure you know. There’s lots of things I have definitely learned from you as well. So be interested to get your perspective and your listeners what that K would be best spent on.

[0:41:35] George: 
 I’ve never actually thought of archery and myself, which is interesting, but we’ll shoot from the hip and see where we go. So I think the biggest one for me is probably your content that the content so important. Now it’s a massive, differentiating factor of how you can create that brand moment that build that brand moat that I talk about, build up some equity. I wouldn’t necessarily focused too much on education because obviously, what I’ve been doing for the last few years on DH, I’ve been fortunate as well to kind of build up connexions to help me with appetising on Facebook and on Amazon itself. But for me, I think if you have a really solid understanding of your structure is which is always gonna be operations, then brand and appetising the operations you can pretty much nail. To be honest, once you kind of got those flows set out, which doesn’t take too long, then comes onto brand. On the brand is mayor. All is about content. So is investing in video investigating copywriters, investing in photographers, investing graphic designers So you have this continuous fluid flow in everything we touch point, you’ve got online off brilliant contents. That could be your emails. You’ve always got great content in there because it be beautifully written. It could be your Your website is just glorious to be on. It could be your Facebook campaigns or that have incredible images and really captivating copy. It could be then coming back to Amazon, where you have got every single potential touch point you’re capitalising on utilising on DH. That is everything from your A plus to your videos to your main images to your bullets, your titles. All of that is perfect because you invested a good chunk of that dollar at the very beginning in content. Seconds of that would be probably validation. I think this is something to me people skip. Then they take their life savings with their savings on What they look to do is right. I like this product. I’ve asked a few people. If they like this product, have us my mom, she’s giving me the thumbs up. The girlfriend, who’s pretty much thinks I’m brilliant whenever I come up with an idea she doesn’t. That’s not true. But for argument’s sake, some partners will say their brilliant minds. Unfortunately, too honest, they only ask a selection of people who aren’t necessarily the target market. And they don’t really put it to the test and get any data behind. That’s the idea. So if you look at Kraft Heinz, for instance, they don’t ask five people in a small little committee. If they’re not his new source, they will test it on thousands of people and get lows of detailed responses and have some hard data behind it based on their target markets. What I’d be looking at doing is perhaps some some of its financial, but some of it is time because you can do it for free. Is looking at Facebook groups in my target market really focus on spending time there on DH, speaking to a lot of my time customers a forehand on DH, then start sending traffic to a landing page with a sketch up of what my product should be. The unique selling points and that’s what I like. You haven’t even bought the product yet, but you are employ a graphic designer or a three D modelling person, so whip up some content around it. You know, that could cost you a few £100 for the potential idea. Are you cooking? Now that she’s wasted money, you know, it could be wasted money, 300 quid in graphics and photography or free D designs, whatever. And then I’m also gonna waste more money by sending so unpaid traffic there from Facebook a little bit and also sending some organic traffic from Facebook perm groups, for instance, where I could make connexions or linked to know whenever and seeing. Okay, I’ve sent 500 people to this page on off, in essence, told him exactly what the product is with really beautiful images and the nice selection of us piece of while our product is different before even exists. And then I’ve got a simple quarter action, which is kind of by now, for instance, but your email into by now, or be notified when we launch and get 20% off. If I’m sending 500 people on DH 10 people give me their email, then I have data right there that tells, May, you know roughly What? What’s that? 1%? 1% of the potential customers who are in my target market. Our interest in my product idea. I’ve got actual figures. If I seen people go through in 100 leave me their email address. I know that 20% then are interested in actual that product, and it’s worthwhile. Then going ahead and getting that first syriza samples out north second syriza samples and getting him in the hands of some of those 100 people that just email addresses for to get him to play with it and iterated on DH. Finalise it because a lot of people while I’m seeing doing that process it could cost me £500 on what could come back is okay. This is a wrong product to buy. You have technically, something that cost, which is obviously about experience, but what you’ve actually done that is avoided. The cost of going Rahr just put four grand in tests and product are now going to start some ads. And when I could’ve put an Amazon, see if anyone actually wants it. Because I haven’t had enough time validating the idea. Um, the amount you gonna spend that’s gonna be completely different. So the second portion would be really investing time and money invalidating it, looking to run a little bit of Facebook towards, and it can be small amounts of money. You could spend 50 quid and send traffic towards it and see how many people you get. Go yet. You could also then spend time doing the Facebook group towards as well See how many people give you their email. Yeah, just try a few different things. That’ll be Point number two is validation on the final One would be properly in advertising. And I’m in a fortunate position where there’s a team like an ass to do that for me on DH. I don’t need to play the £1000 a month like some of these large raisins he’s charge. Probably bring in house. But why would be looking to do is spend money. So as soon as that product launches, I am attacking it aggressively with the theory that I’m happy to lose money in the beginning, or even break even to lose money in the beginning just so I can get that fly well wrapped up as soon as possible. Because every dollar that I’m making now is gonna make me a lot more later on. I want to build up that relevant as soon as possible. And I’m happy tto lose money and sink money into it to begin with. Just so is I can get ramped up very quickly fire than rankings as quickly as possible. Um, go well, it’s I’ve made a two grand lost this month so far my product which is fine because I’m now ranked on page one for two of my target search terms on because I’ve done my marketing cracked. I’ve collected on no. 300 emails for argument’s sake, off potential other customers. So that’s kind of the three plus a. Maybe the 1st 1 is content. We’re just 2nd 1 is his validation on the third is when you’ve obviously created that product and you got into Amazon. Getting that flower will go as quickly as possible by being aggressive with both Facebook, and I was an appetising to get those sails in the door.

[0:49:20] Ben Timmons: 
 Interesting, very comprehensive. answer. Yeah,

[0:49:25] George: 
 15 minutes,

[0:49:27] Ben Timmons: 
 my love. And I have a quick snows. I think, Yeah, everything you said is absolutely spot on for me. There’s one word in that use over and over again, which is absolute Spawn. Is word invest and so frighteningly You thought someone is looking for that business? You talk about the budget allocation that you have to have because let’s be honest, nothing was free. I think this is the amount of money you want to look good doing this and investing into here and investing with me here. People don’t see it as investing in people see it as a cost. That’s all that. I don’t see it as a tangible return because it might not be tangible sense if you have something to hold from it. But is is an investment. Um, that’s the bit. That’s that’s so Sochi is understanding that, you know, especially in the world of, you know, content and assets. Your first point, You gonna pay someone a product photographer 50 quid per image, you know, great. Or you can pay some 152 100 quid and they’re gonna produce images that on three or four times better. They’re going to produce them. That a 10 20 times better. If you have the that resonates review and how you perceived that, imagine that amplified for your customer and every other customer that that might become across your list him as well. So it’s understanding that what you’re spending is gonna have a return on. But it’s an investment

[0:50:47] George: 
 absolutely, absolutely apart. Well conscious. I’m keeping you for for too long. The busy day ahead of you sorting out that hair of yours and probably a bit of gaming, no doubt is make a feature. Yeah, What’s up? One of

[0:51:04] Ben Timmons: 
 mountain? And, yes, I was there.

[0:51:05] George: 
 You were

[0:51:06] Ben Timmons: 
 right about lunch. Dawn?

[0:51:07] George: 
 Yeah. Lunchtime sandwich. In a bit of gaming, no doubt. I’m sure

[0:51:12] Ben Timmons: 
 for sure. Absolutely.

[0:51:14] George: 
 Perks of the day job.

[0:51:16] Ben Timmons: 
 Exactly that I’m on the clock.

[0:51:18] George: 
 I file. Well, thank you for being thank you for being our guest. And I’m sure you’ll be back on at some point in the future. I

[0:51:27] Ben Timmons: 
 hope Side George.

[0:51:29] George: 
 Cheers, buddy. Have a good run.

[0:51:31] Ben Timmons: 
 It’s him like that

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