Episode 28: Destaney Wishon – Round 2

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[0:00:00] George Reid: Welcome to It’s Always Day One. My name is George Reid, a former Amazonian turned Amazon consultant. Each week on the podcast, you’re gonna hit industry experts, brand owners on Amazon employees share their answers to the basic yet fundamental questions you should be asking yourself about your Amazon business. Now let’s jump in. Hello, Destiny. Welcome back on the It’s always Day One podcast. Thank you so much for taking some time in your busy, busy schedule. Thio. Join us today. How are you?

[0:00:31] Destaney Wishon: Amazing. All things considered, head above water,

[0:00:35] George Reid: head above water. I like your like your approach. So in keeping with what we discussed beforehand, let’s try and make this as short sharp on Snappy. Had to slow myself down there because I was definitely gonna pronounce them wrong if I didn’t. Let’s make it a quick episode. Let’s give people some value and let’s keep it under 20 minutes. Um, kicking things off. How come brands build out on Amazon advertising funnel In today’s world,

[0:01:03] Destaney Wishon: I think one of the biggest things they can do is understand the incur mentality and granularity of what we do in Amazon advertising. So you and you and I have discussed this a lot, but you have the brand awareness capabilities that everyone is aware of. The DSP, you know O t t all these ridiculous packages you’re being sold. On the flip side of that, you have the ability to target a consumer exactly when they are looking to purchase. They’re not walking by your Eilat. Walmart. They’re not searching Google for best utilization of your product. They are looking to buy. So understanding those two ends and filling in the gaps are huge.

[0:01:42] George Reid: Yeah, that’s a good point. I call that high of hunt mode, which I’ve always seen. Amazon advertising, traditionally being used for, is brilliant for that theorem Airness, though outside of DSP, you said O T t that. What’s that? Sorry.

[0:01:58] Destaney Wishon: Over the top. It’s basically just more crazy acronyms through DSP. So

[0:02:06] George Reid: that’s the BSP term that they’ve used O T T.

[0:02:09] Destaney Wishon: Yes, And this is Kyle’s warehouse.

[0:02:12] George Reid: Yeah, yeah,

[0:02:14] Destaney Wishon: I ask too much else.

[0:02:15] George Reid: Now we’ll leave. That would leave that one there for a little bit. But with regards to mawr traditional advertising in terms of sponsored products and sponsor brands, what can people be doing? Mawr Top of funnel that we’re talking about awareness campaigns, etcetera.

[0:02:32] Destaney Wishon: I think the biggest thing you could do is change your perception of Amazon advertising. So start with your girl goals and understand what’s possible and then align the KP ice with that. A great example is you have the ability to drive. Brand awareness was sponsored products you just can’t expect to get a 10% A c o. S or $6.0 ass. So one thing you could do is, let’s say we’re selling a soccer ball. We could advertise to kids sports or gifts for kids and that allows you drive. Bring awareness because you’re targeting consumers who aren’t looking for soccer balls anyways. But they’re in your shopper marketing audience. They’re probably, you know, Mom’s looking at buying toys for their kids, so they’re in market. But they don’t have that purchase intent. So targeting different keywords, understanding that they’re gonna have different KP ice. Most people don’t go to DSP and expect to get ridiculous row as they’re driving. Right awareness. Have that philosophy with your sponsored.

[0:03:31] George Reid: Yeah, I like that a lot, and it’s a good example, and I saw him recently. We were advertising dog products and somehow the ads guide started creating some cat ones backs, and he was just confused about what the product was for. But we’re still hitting like a 20%. A cost now is like, How does why you’re advertising cat things? But then it clicked. I was like, What? Obviously they’ve probably got dogs as well. It made so much sense as I George. I don’t understand why that was a challenge for you at first, but clearly that’s the answer. But this is mawr up the funnel. I guess I wasn’t looking for a dog product, but here is one I’m aware I’m aware of now. The brand that being said, though, how do you How do you change your creative to ensure that the brand is being pushed us much as possible on the brand name is being pushed, so it’s resonating in its front of mind for them. Anything you can do that

[0:04:23] Destaney Wishon: you can do a few things, and I think that’s also gonna play a big role into what we see in 2021. But for right now we have the ability Thio ad copy, of course, for headline search ads and now product targeting ads within sponsored display again and custom image. Beta is a really large one, so it’s a tiny little check box under the ability to write copy within a headline search at and you’re able to upload a lifestyle image. So doing those small things can really help resonate with who your brand is and what your brand is. But I also don’t think that has needed on Amazon. I don’t think anyone needs to see your logo. Memorize it because they may not go into brick and mortar stores. Traditionally, you needed people to really resonate with that type of style because they’re walking through Walmart, they would need to remember your product. Amazon. You have your purchase history, all of your order, history, all e commerce platforms. So I think you could easily we’ve seen it with all the private label brands out there. You don’t need to build a brand as much for brand awareness as you do for shopper loyalty, I think,

[0:05:26] George Reid: yeah, I’d agree if you agree with you there. But then my argument would be when they are, let’s, say, the cat person seeing the dog product. But then when there happens, to be searching for dog products. Do you think they’re gonna have that click in their head off? I remember that one or or no. Or do you think you’re just pulling on the We’ve identified the pain point. We’ve given you the solution and now the pain points playing on your mind. Which kind of do you think it falls into?

[0:05:57] Destaney Wishon: Both, I think, was sponsored products. You know, we don’t have the opportunity to do that. So we’re basically for going the brand awareness for the purpose of having a consumer realize our brand later on. So for sponsored products were just trying to hit people that are aligned in our target demographic. But maybe not with the purchase and hit now for sponsor brands or DSP custom creatives. That becomes all the more important because you do want someone to subconsciously see your brand see your product and then maybe a month later, when shopping in your audience and then resonate with your brand again when they see it. So it’s kind of balancing both aspects with the minimal capabilities we have.

[0:06:38] George Reid: Yeah, that makes sense on donned a new feature that’s working really well. I see you and Carl. A number of others raving about it is the sponsored videos. How do you think these come into this sort of strategy of driving awareness? Because you do have a bit mawr to push the brand name the brand voice. The brand. Um well, voice is probably the best one in terms of the colors that you use the way you betray yourself. Video gives you a lot more on that. Should people be thinking about incorporating video into them or awareness play

[0:07:10] Destaney Wishon: 1000%? The biggest reason is because the KP ice and how it’s targeted, as I kind of mentioned earlier video in search under self serve is still PPC based. So what that means is I can have a video of a cat toy and I conserve it. Teoh, a consumer who is potentially searching for cat food cat litter box because we know that they have a cat. They’re not potentially searching for a cat toy, but they’re in market. And if my video is good, the consumer is going to stop. Watch the video and we’re still not gonna get charged but potentially click on the video. And that’s when we get charged. And if someone is taking the time to click on your ad, there’s some form of interest in your brand. Yeah, so the fact that we only get charged on that basically lowers our risk to Let’s do some really, really broad targeting and see what we can get to convert.

[0:08:04] George Reid: And you could just think about like a TV campaign back in the day, which was never really that targeted in comparison to what you’ve got. Now you are paying for impression on now. People can literally watch your video thousands of times on. Your brand could just be pushed out in front of loads and loads of people who are in a similar sort of category, Ornish or whatever. Andi, you’re not gonna pay for that. That’s phenomenal.

[0:08:30] Destaney Wishon: That is the biggest call out. I would like what a repeat. Everything you just said. Because there is this huge knowledge gap in traditional marketing where you’re throwing up a billboard or you’re doing something CPM based. We can now target people who are specifically looking to buy similar products to ours. Why wouldn’t that? Why wouldn’t that convince people to spend more on Amazon ads when you know, they’re right there like it’s insane.

[0:08:57] George Reid: My honor. Start to his people are lazy. People haven’t got the time or they’re lazy on DCU. Kyle made a good point off the basic videos of performing the best because they sit mawr organically within Amazon’s kind of yeah user experience user interface. They don’t stand out too much, and therefore they don’t seem like they’re on add per se, which might take someone off page so thes basic ones, though they don’t cost a fortune to build. So I put down to straight up laziness and people just not jumping on things when they should be. That’s my opinion. I don’t know what your thought is.

[0:09:36] Destaney Wishon: I think that there’s a big gap in the knowledge when we typically audit like large vendor accounts, and some of the larger agencies have worked with, um, it’s just let’s start one manual campaign throwing 200 keywords its branded It’s non branded. It’s category. They aren’t negating the appropriate terms. They are cleaning up the structure because it’s going to be successful regardless because, like you said, sponsored products are extremely organic looking. The majority of consumers probably don’t realize how that advertising type works because it looks like a regular listing and the algorithm so good, it looks like all the other organic products.

[0:10:13] George Reid: Um, no, I completely agree. Alright, let’s pivot slightly. We’ve covered a lot about the funnel. It spent five minutes talking about software slightly. I know you did a great post which had it was basically put a post on LinkedIn that became a free opportunity for everyone to pitch their software as a service, which was quite hilarious on everyone was weighing in. But my question is, at what point do people need to get software for the Amazon advertising?

[0:10:42] Destaney Wishon: So the first thing I always ask when I get this question is, how much time are you wanting to spend in your Amazon advertising? Or are you still gonna have someone managing Amazon advertising? I am personally have the belief that there is not a full service solution that has nothing to do with the Softwares that has to do with the Amazon. A p I. They don’t roll out. Release is quick enough to then have a developer build out everything needed for a software. So the majority or software, they’re gonna be pretty far behind, so the blended approach is perfect. But if you’re not in your account, optimizing bids multiple times a week, you should probably look at having a bit optimization software if you’re not in your account. Managing customers beta store spotlight sponsor display retargeting all of those different new options. You should potentially look at outsourcing to a service that has a blended solution of management and software. But if you are planning on having time on these types of things, it does not take more than a couple hours a week to do bit off by hand or campaign watching.

[0:11:46] George Reid: Yeah, yeah, I completely agree with that. That blended solution probably is right, Um, but with regards to skew count, does it get to a point where you can’t physically with one person manage 104 106 100 skews each week? Is it just unmanageable table? Do that all on your own, even with the best macro files on. Except

[0:12:12] Destaney Wishon: if you were one person with 100% dedicated time, you could potentially potentially do it. But I’ll say for our brands that are up in that school account, we typically have dual management on the account. Even though we have a full team, even though we have macros and have been up software, because when you’re really looking at when I constantly preached incremental ality, the granularity of everything, we’re able to do all the new shiny stuff that takes a lot of hands on management because there’s not Resource is for it.

[0:12:44] George Reid: Yeah, that’s a good point on. Everyone seems to be talking about that with Softwares kind of pitfalls at the moment off Amazon releasing advertising features so fast, But I think we’ve seen so many this year, and I’m sure you Seymour with access to all sorts of beaters behind the covers under the covers. But software simply can’t keep up like they need to go build that they need to make sure it works, so they need to put some rules in behind it. Sure, it works well, whereas she person could dio I saw this afternoon. It says Beater. Let’s jump in it right now, particularly the video like no one’s jumping on video, but it’s for being around for what is it? Three months we’ve had video for

[0:13:25] Destaney Wishon: It’s technically been rolled out beta for around 13 months.

[0:13:29] George Reid: Alright, maybe Look silly.

[0:13:30] Destaney Wishon: Open beta. No. So the a p I was rolled out. Okay, That’s where I kind of assumed you were going. So video was originally rolled out Beta 13 months ago, it was open for accounts. Maybe in March or April. The A p I for wasn’t released until nine months after and then bulk was announced, like last month. So every single person like we’ve spent around a million dollars on video in search in the last year and it’s extremely cheap because hardly anyone else was doing it at the time. It’s just crazy.

[0:14:05] George Reid: Yeah, that doesn’t even factor the awareness play where you’re not necessarily. I mean, how does that work? And this is probably the final question, because video does excite me quite a lot. How does it work with attribution for sponsored video? Is the window different? Because let’s say someone views your ad, but two months later they come and purchase. Does the attribution change that video or No,

[0:14:30] Destaney Wishon: I believe it’s still 14 days.

[0:14:32] George Reid: Simple 14. So you probably scooping up loads of additional sales further down the funnel from that video, which you would never be able to attribute, unfortunately, but it’s kind of one of those gut feelings. One. What have you? What have you found? Is a gut feeling, Or is it? I’m not sure.

[0:14:51] Destaney Wishon: I would say that’s a good call. I do think it’s worth mentioning, especially like consumables were punishable. The value of winning that first customer is all the more important special on a platform like that. And that’s where video is fantastic is it can make someone aware of just how much better your product is, which can then, you know, Dr Ah, Lifetime’s worth of consumer value, especially repeat purchasing or if they’re aware of your other products now something I’ll probably excite you even more is it’s been a rumor that video in search will be rolled out with the opportunity to drive to either multiple isolating pages or the store page. Right now, videos on Lee drive to a single product landing page so it gets more complex toe role in brand awareness. When you can Onley advertise one mason in the video, but it’s rumored we’re getting more.

[0:15:42] George Reid: Yeah, that kind of tied into so to a little bit where if you’re driving people from a social ad and you’re taken to a landing page or a website. You’re looking to replicate the experience that have on the ad with what they’re immediately seeing, so it’s kind of 11 smooth transition where you may find is some videos taken to a page. But then your page doesn’t quite have the same look and feel because it’s a product page. Where is the store page? Obviously, you can dio we use purpose the background in the video you land on the store page, you put your nice purple look there immediately resonating. It’s, um, or of a better experience, going from a to B

[0:16:21] Destaney Wishon: ah, 100% agree, and just having more analytics on the store page, which I’m just slightly different topic. But you get a decent amount of insights on your store pages. So I always love diving into those because oftentimes one of your sub pages drives like a higher average order quantity. You’re like, Why are people purchase more products on this page? So, like using that, then being like, hey, I should probably drive to more store pages instead of landing pages like that stuff’s cool.

[0:16:50] George Reid: Yeah, no, I completely agree and just the ability to create more of an experience for me on Dr Maura. That brand just wow them a little bit. Maura and the other one only click this recently. I don’t know why it took me so long. You don’t have anywhere. Near is much noise on your store page to what you would have on a product detail page. There’s no sponsored ads on there at the moment. Really, you may know differently, but there’s nothing. There’s no one else. It’s just used. If you drive into storefront, the conversion rate should theoretically be significantly higher on the average order value much higher as well. So if you’re paying to get that click from a video driving them, there is gonna be an absolute game changer.

[0:17:29] Destaney Wishon: That is a fantastic call out.

[0:17:32] George Reid: Thank you. Thank you very much. All right, Well, thank you so much for the 17 minutes and 15 seconds your time today. Destiny. Hopefully people enjoy. The shorter episodes were punching out at the moment, and I’m sure destiny beyond no doubt in the new year again.

[0:17:47] Destaney Wishon: Awesome. Thank you.

[0:17:49] George Reid: No worries. Definitely. Have a good day. Hey, guys. Just a quick one. If you are enjoying the podcast on either have some actionable next steps or new ideas, I’d really appreciate if you could one subscribe to the show and leave us. Review Thes are really, really important to us. As you probably know, being in the Amazon world, aunt to If you’re looking for additional support with your brand, head over to the website, it’s always day one dot co dot UK. We’ve got links to other resource is as often our guys speak soon.


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