EPISODE 9: Joshua Justice

Josh runs the Amazon marketing for one of the best supplement companies in the world – Nordic Naturals. Having initially entered the Amazon world in 2013 selling motorcycle accessories from Vietnam, he’s now got 7-years under his belt across a wide-array of job roles.#

In this episode we discuss:

  • The importance of thinking long-term with your Amazon Advertising
  • Why 80% ACoS isn’t necessarily bad
  • Big brand pricing strategies on Amazon
  • If he had to start again, what would he do with $10k on Amazon
  • Why you want negative reviews
  • How some huge Amazon tools have incorrect data

We’re not about publicly shaming brands, so for those who want the scoop on which 4 providers Josh tried, but binned due to bad data, here is his LinkedIn.

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Click here for the RAW unedited transcript
[0:00:01] George Reid:
Welcome to us always. Day one. My name is George Reid, a former Amazonian turned Amazon consultant. Each week in the podcast, you’re gonna hear industry expert Brando it on Amazon employees share their answers to the basic yet fundamental questions. You should be asking yourself a bag. Your Amazon business. Now, let’s jump in. Hello, Josh. Andi, thank you so much for coming to join me on the podcast today and kick things off on getting kind of get in amongst it straight away. You’d want to give us a quick 62nd overview off How you got into this kind of Amazon world? About about what you’re doing at the moment. Just so the list, this kind of paint? A bit of a picture.

[0:00:39] Joshua Justice:
Yeah. So I came from the entrepreneurial side, or I called the Juan Tra Nouriel side back 1013 tooth out late 2012. I wanted to get into e commerce walls working in China, and I went on this long trip to Vietnam and wrote more to cycle through the country. And ah, got some GoPro accessories that I wanted to sell and tested them out on a long trip and ah, and then was selling on eBay in the US while I was still in China living in China at the time, and I would sell products I taught. My mom had a ship and I paid for it. And so I just realized you could make money when you’re not working. And, ah, later in 2013 I had a job offer to help this really big Amazon seller and change in China. And I couldn’t get the visa approved because he had too many foreigners working for him. And so he kind of became a mentor and ah, kind of introduced me to, like, what was that name was on selling machine and I started with one brand of one product and had a bunch What lined up And my wife got pregnant and and all the cash flow that was gonna be used for that, um, you know, kind of dried up. But I learned to do everything on my own. I took images. I did the copyrighting into the product research I weighed, mostly ordered by myself in China because I was living in China. Um, and that just opened the door. I worked with a Chinese company than a Dutch company. Sort of freelancing got hired at a big agency. Then, you know, I just kind of developed more and more. And and, uh, I like the agency side. And now I work at a supplement company, and I managed advertising for all the market places. And then also, I’m involved, basically with all things marketing on the marketplaces. So

[0:02:26] George Reid:
are you cool sharing the name of that supplement company? I don’t mind either way.

[0:02:29] Joshua Justice:
So, yes, I work for a company called Nordic Naturals. So all these are my own, not the views of Nordic. Anything that’s regrettable or inappropriate. But I

[0:02:43] George Reid:
could ask. I could ask him filthy questions. You never know. You could just panic that I’m putting it live anyway, so

[0:02:48] Joshua Justice:
yeah. Yeah, I know. I really I think Norick is. Is Nordic Naturals is the best supplement company in the world. The standard really high makes my job a lot more enjoyable to be able to push your product. That’s best in class. Um, and as opposed to you know, when you working agency, sometimes you get clients that you need to take or you have to take our You know, Maybe you don’t want to be looking at a certain type of product every day, which I’ve had some like that. And so um, yeah, you know, like you’re saying, How’s life doing? I love the company I work for. I like my job. I like the people I work with. I have a job and I think

[0:03:29] George Reid:
you touching a good point that we we advise a lot of people on Amazon and one of the things I think where you see people are more successful ISS when they’re the solar producers of the entrepreneurs, whatever you wanna call them, it’s one actually passionate about the product they’re working with, which you obviously are With Nordic. My best supplement company in the world in your eyes is much easier for anybody to turn up, whether it’s your own brand, someone else’s brand as an agency. If you really like the product, you back what they’re doing. I remember when when we were working and essentially pitching FB eight people in the UK It was such an easy thing to do because we fully believe the service. It was brilliant, and you could get behind it. So that’s a quick kind of tip right there for anyone being like, If you’re looking to get into this world, ensure that you enjoy the brandy you’re getting into bed with or the brand that you’re setting up. Because when shit hits the fan that ultimately will at some points and Amazon you don’t be looking at a big pile of products being like, Why on earth I got these. I hate whatever happens to be cats Always, which is always my go to is a dog man. Yeah, that’s a good a good take. Okay, so let’s you focus a lot. We’ve spoken a little bit before on the advertising side of the platform on We’ve had a couple of the guests on, but I really like conversations we’ve had together in the past because you offered a slightly different angle. Eso gonna hit you with a couple of questions and then I’ve got some other more general things. Hopefully, something tricky to make you stumble a little bit. They should be fun. Good man. First question, kick things off, then. Where do you think people’s focus should be right now with regards to Amazon advertising?

[0:05:17] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I think you know for supplements. Well, I would say in general sponsor products, because I don’t know what the latest statistics are, but when I worked at ah, really large agency, we had access to a lot of data because we’re owned by WPP, which is the largest, you know, marketing agency in the world. They have, like, hundreds of agents season. So we, you know, we were told that, you know, you got, like, the four products across the top of the search page and that, like, something like, 85% of sales happen in the top three of the first row and the first products in the second row. So, like, product at number two on that second row does better than the fourth ranked product on that top rule,

[0:06:02] George Reid:
Argos. Interesting. So that works on the premise Off the heat map on a screen is gonna talk lap on the moves across the right.

[0:06:09] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, that kind

[0:06:10] George Reid:
of inverted pyramid, if you will.

[0:06:13] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, kind like a Tetris piece or something. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, that was a couple years ago. I’m sure those numbers have changed, but you’ll notice that since that time there would be to sponsor products spots at that top row for four products, maybe five if you have a really huge monitor, and now there’s usually four. So it kind of changes things because you could be ranked number five organically, but you’ve got the top really got a sponsor brain campaign. The second row is the top four sponsor bronc brand campaigns, and then you might have something. You know you’ve got the top four, and then if you’re number five on the next row, it could be the next role. Or it could be three or four rows down because Amazon might put Amazon’s choice on Amazon on our top brands row and and so so, yeah, so feel free to steer me back to the original point.

[0:07:11] George Reid:
That’s what I was thinking. So we said we said that kind of salt product you’ve got you’ve got so much going on right now. But with the three years ago, some of the other features were available. You’re still saying sponsored products for you and Nordic have proven to be the staple of one that people should nail first before they look to get special and everything else.

[0:07:33] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I would say to paying on your category. I really like sponsor brands with supplements. We have a lot of really great products. And when you’re looking at fish oil and Omega three, whether it’s fish based or you know, there’s some now vegan omega three products, people are looking at the milligram content. So you know, our our best product has, ah, 1002 180 milligrams of Omega three, and then we have one that has almost double that. And then we have one that is only like 6 90 There are three different price points, and some people want to take a stronger dose. Um, and so, like, I advertise all three versions if it’s like related to you fish oil. And so our from you know, another category, it might not be that useful. Like I run PPC for a friend that has a really small brand. And sponsor brands are like not good for them at all. So

[0:08:27] George Reid:
yeah, so I think, yeah, really very Zevallos. On the smaller side of things, you’ve got to be looking at what we’ve done. Some appetizing people as well, and sponsor brands for some smaller, smaller companies just don’t seem to hit quite as well. It all comes down to your ability to convert those customers. Well, right, if you’re converting, like with Nordic, obviously there’s monstrous number reviews. You know that you can bid. That’s hot placement because you conversion rates going really high on and correct me if I’m wrong. But the higher your conversion rate, your cost per click slowly gonna go down. Is that is that correct?

[0:09:03] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I just depend. Supplements can be crazy. Like you might have a day where somebody just, you know, three brands decided bid, like, 15 $20 for click. And all right, I’m gonna top out of that race for the day and let them spend all their money. And then, you know, I I can often see when other brands are spinning a lot of money, I’ll see them at the top for, like, three days, and then they’re out for like, the rest of the month. It’s like they spent their multi budget. Um, but that comes with I’m checking those top keyword searches, like, every day, like, five times a day for the very top ones. Um and so, yeah, I can see when I don’t want a name, name names, but I’m when our competitors definitely. Oh, this brand has a lot of budget and, you know, they’re really pushing hard. And then no, you don’t see from them the next two months of the quarter and then, you know, October 1st gonna roll around, they’re gonna start advertising a lot, so

[0:09:58] George Reid:
that’s interesting. And that’s all manual for you at the moment when you’re checking it on a regular basis, they’re using any tools to support you with that?

[0:10:06] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, So you can use tools while I still I still like seeing it for myself. I like seeing, you know, like I saw one brain that emerged in, they’re suddenly had 30. Ah, 30 review. So I’m looking at Who is this brand? I’ve never heard of this, Brands. I’m looking at their content. I’m just like all this guy’s, you know, knows all the black hat tricks. I can tell the reviews are fake, cause it’s like this fish oils like their new Lord and savior and saving the foreman from, you know, phenomenal stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And you just like you can tell these are fake. And I know that because I’ve known so many sellers that would ask me to leave those reviews in the past. And there. What to say? This was back when, you know, it was when it wasn’t against terms of service to do that. And so I can recognize it. Like I saw Chinese friends and, you know, I see what they do, and they talked to me about it. But but so yeah, so you know, if you’re looking at it, you’re looking at things as a customer would You’re gonna catch things and you can use software, but I still like searching manually. Impossible. But yes. Oh, right now I have on agency that is managing the day to day bids, and that’s just something that’s a little new. Um, and so I’ve been more managing Thea strategy. And then I’m still checking those things every day. Those thing we’re replacing, seeing who’s spending money. Um, so, yeah, I think

[0:11:35] George Reid:
it’s good to continually be aware that even if you are using agency and lots of brands will obviously looked to use an agency. But have your finger on the pulse off. I know my brand. I know my competitors much more than any agency probably ever can unless they’ve been working work with you for 6 12 18 months. You can spot when someone else like you said the other day, comes on new, and you can slowly follow them a little bit on also doing it from a a manual perspective. You can play around with different locations. So particularly the US we’re gonna change your post goes a little bit off of that. Gabriel spoke to a while ago. He does that quite a bit. Just kind of Look how you display differently across different locations on That’s something Andrew spoke about recently as well. Kind of like g o targeting was how he defined it. So trying to see where your but your placements are in different locales and not just that, but then double down again in different states in the US But I think it’s so important to keep your finger on the pulse, right? Rather than just okay, I’m gonna throw some numbers into a tool and step back and walk away.

[0:12:47] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, and you know, that’s what we’re actually looking for a software program since last fall, and we and we tried. I think we try three and, ah, they’re just not that great. They wouldn’t for a lot of times the data there they’re pulling through with their A P. I wouldn’t be accurate and we would give it like, a month or so and like I didn’t do it. And so, like, Well, if they can’t even give us the right data and it’s off by, you know, a significant amount, it’s not like 1%. It’s like way more than that. And then, you know, there’s one where we would change the bids and then they’re not going through. So then I got a double check, which takes a lot more work. And so you know, So we kind of hand in a few Softwares and then we’re looking at another software, and then my manager wanted wanted me to have more free time to work on not just managing the bids every day because it’s a lot of work like to be a hot percent efficient or 100% on top of everything manually for a large account is it’s tough, you know, you have to make decisions like OK, I could work 60 hours a week and do this or can I, you know, do ah doing 95% enough or a 95% efficient enough job Teoh in 40 hours. You know, at what

[0:14:09] George Reid:
stage do you feel? Do you think as a threshold or a brand can get to a certain size before it’s We need to get some so far in, What do you think is a point where you hit where you go? Now it’s time to get some software because we’re managing such a large volume or such a large number of products, or there’s so much data. What do you think on that?

[0:14:32] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I don’t know. I think it was either going to be software we hired, you know, a second person to help Help me out. Um, there. Amazon’s tools are really good. You know, a lot of it’s really fun toe to complain about Amazon. A lot of people to you, but it’s like, you know, at the end of the day they’ve spent, you know, billions of dollars. You know, who knows how much developing this platform that people trust and go to, and 95% of it is pretty good, you know. 5% is, you know, I have this cellar support case that’s been open since January that I just don’t answer anymore. And they just keep, you know, replying like, Hey, we’re working on it, you know, it’s just kind of a joke. It’s not. It’s not a Mitri. Yes, So I think I don’t know, because I was doing everything manually. Just took a lot of time and ah, so I think

[0:15:26] George Reid:
when you tell manual you literally referring to like, we’re using a lot of Excel hair or

[0:15:31] Joshua Justice:
Excel and just in the in the u I in the hookah interface. So you know that takes

[0:15:38] George Reid:
it interesting because a lot of people who are much smaller, the Nordic brands will be going. I need to go get a bit of software. Otherwise I’m never gonna be okay now. Amazon, in your life on Destiny in the better MST met the same that we just use excel. Andi, it’s it’s fine, we’re doing the job. But then why? I had a great conversation of the day with Remember the chap I spoke so but we were saying At what point do you think machine learning and ai is going to be the driving force of these new tools or existing tools and how they develop to the point where they are better than the human. Do you think that that is coming? Oh,

[0:16:19] Joshua Justice:
uh, so I would say no, but I’m not sure I don’t I don’t think so. I feel I’m so pretty big on having your own eyes on your account and everything that’s going on because you might have. I think it’s just it’s a tool of supplement the person and the red. I think you know, there might be something where Okay, it’s more efficient to bid lower on this. But, you know, maybe I want a bit high on this. He word that is a really high volume, Que because I know that the average buyer’s gonna by my 53 more times this year. And so that’s also a way to look at your cost like, yeah, my cost is 80%. But, you know, the average buyer buys my product, you know, three more times this year. So if you factor that in, you know, and then there are lifetime customer than you know, it’s kind of worth it, but you have to get your brands where, like the I doesn’t necessarily know that.

[0:17:23] George Reid:
And I think that’s that’s exactly with my point that I said Teoh chapter of the day was, I think that some elements self off. The process is going to be taken over by by the machine, but you’re always going to need someone there to pull those levers, put the numbers in on and make it make it work because you’re absolutely right. Like people are sweating, going a tips and a corsets and nightmare. Let’s tackle this immediately because we need to drive it down to the optimum 20 or sub 20 or whatever you wanna call it. But, you know, is a consumable brand. Our attentions really bloody good. We’ve got a great follow a process on the back end, friends. X percent of people go on and buy three times a year from assistant acquisition child, right?

[0:18:09] Joshua Justice:
Yeah. And so what’s good is that Bren analytics has that data for you as well. So you know, when you’re when you’re it might not help you. As a small time seller, it could a little bit, but when you get to a certain point and you have other people selling your product. You know, you don’t know how much you’re selling on Amazon as a whole. And so you can kind of use the tools Amazon has available, um, to kind of see what that market cap is for your brand, so to speak. Maybe not market count. But, um, you know, we have there might be 50 sellers selling our products so you can go and look at the demographics report will tell you your revenue for 1/4 and or for a month, But that does not include repeat purchases. So with the supplement brands are if he purchases important, so then they also have the repeat purchase report. So if you can take that demographic report, then you then you add on that repeat purchase for the quarter, you can kind of see, like Air Grand is selling this much, and we’re only capturing, you know, part of it.

[0:19:14] George Reid:
Yeah, it’ll be great to perhaps not today, but I’d like to sit down again and kind of see the process you’re going through and doing a step by step of like, Here’s how we calculated that I’m sure we can whip up a video or something like that for some of the listeners as well. Let’s make a note that that that is so important. Nothing. Some people, just on a manual perspective, wouldn’t quite know how to pull that data together. But as a consumable brand that is so important for you to be able to go. What it’s fine out Ari causes this or spend is this, and it’s higher than we would like. But let’s look at the other numbers. We pull everything together, organics up our attentions. Here’s our new to brand daughters of there, so make a note of that. Reporting analysis on video area. Awesome. OK, so moving. Moving onto a slide of a topic. Still thinking about the advertising perspective, I think a lot of people are making mistakes and Amazon across the board. But where do you think the biggest mistakes are made with regards to the appetizer?

[0:20:21] Joshua Justice:
I think maybe not looking at the long term value of that customer. Um, you know, if if somebody goes and buys one of our competitors, you know, they might just go in and just put okay, if they don’t have subscribe and save, they might just say, Oh, I’ll just buy that again. It was good enough and you’ll never have a chance to get that customer again. You know, never say never, but no. The likelihood of them going back through the decision the by buying decision making processes is pretty low. If they’re if they’re happy, if that product is good enough, so

[0:20:56] George Reid:
and that that’s so true. I think that we’ve these words from coffee brands in the past as well, and it’s exactly the same to them. And remember rattling away to myself being like it doesn’t matter if you’re paying a little bit higher than you would like. Like if someone else grabs that spot as like the main headline and just requires your customer who was looking for you and is looking for your brand term, then you’ve lost him forever. And you know what’s what’s your lifetime value off war individual customer? It could be 10 15 times the amount of that sale and you go what? Here you go competitors. You seeing that quite a lot as well. Like when you’re studying competition, you seeing them leaving the back door open quite a lot.

[0:21:40] Joshua Justice:
Uh, no. I think the top competitors a really, really, really sharpen supplements, you know, you see a lot off. Um, I see one. So there’s there’s fish oil. There’s, like, higher quality. Um, then there’s, like, a second tier where I see they’re probably I would give him a 75% in quality, and then you’ve got, like, the lowest cheapest brands, which probably every American at least if they saw the Logan. Like, I’ve seen that foreign, um, those lower I don’t want I don’t want to, like, dissed them. It’s just lower quality. It’s not bad quality. Um, you see them, like with tons of coupons and because I know what the costume look is generally speaking for a lot of these top spots like they’re losing money on those sales. But, you know, someone gets that 25% off thing and they subscribe in saving than they get that extra 5% because they’ve got so many out others. You know, the top brands understand that, and, you know, in a single brands, so yeah,

[0:22:43] George Reid:
I think that opens up a great question that that’s what people are doing to get that ranking boost right there. They’re looking to essentially go Let’s get surge in traffic. Let’s go to surgeons sales for particular keywords in order to kind of manipulate the algorithm to a certain degree and rank themselves. And that’s why they’re doing these big coupons. And again, you know, we’re going to gobble up the costs as much as possible to begin with. I think you certainly see it with a lot of Chinese manufacturers, 10 brands attacking the US marketplace and the U. K Market place. As is becoming easier to do so and they go, we’re happy to throw dollar into it, right? But with that being said, what other stress shoes are you implementing right now? Then from a kind of more of a premium perspective to help get a ranking Bruce for not just existing products but also new lines?

[0:23:39] Joshua Justice:
Yes. So I I’m not really not able to do a lot of coupons and a lot of discounts because we have, like a pretty strict map policy. Oh, so if it’s a new product, we definitely enroll them in E. R. P uh, we also save some for Vine. Vine is a new ah program that’s open to solar central ah, account holders and you can. Also, if you’re going to release it, you can release at the M S, R P and maybe offer coupon and then also advertise that product in the top slot. I’m a huge fan. I do this a lot before he joined my company, since we don’t do coupons out often, but I would often put coupons on a lot of the top products and then make sure we got in that top spot because, you know, when you’re browsing, those coupons really often get your attention. They get, they get used a lot. So while I can’t do that that much at my current job, I did it a ton before and even one of my old science. Sometimes I go on Amazon and look at my old my former clients, um, accounts and kind of see, like always, the listening so looking good. And you know, one of them still uses that strategy over a year later, like they’re still using the love from so and

[0:24:55] George Reid:
it still works right, like you’re right still does pop and I don’t think enough people are maybe experimenting. What is using these felt full stop, but it still works it shows people helps your brand stand out with no search resulted. Doors important. Obviously look for things like strong main images, but that is just differentiating yourself slightly. If you then doing this. Ah, sponsored out as well. You go right. We’re pushing ourselves to the top weaken gain So immediate attraction like you preferred pushing the price up a little bit. I mean, just to get some insights into the pricing strategy there, your mindset is pushed the price up a little bit, then dropped the coupon.

[0:25:38] Joshua Justice:
That’s what the new product. So we have a name, a star pido, and then you have a map. We have a map policy we have for for other accounts, but we we also follow it. In the past, though, what I would always do with an account was doing a B test with coupons. I would do like one or two weeks, preferably two weeks. Make sure that the coupon starts on a Monday so you can get kind of clear weekend data and then, ah, do one as a percent off and do do one is a dollar off and then see which works better and it’s really different for different categories. So, for example, I had a furniture client and it was mostly like love chairs and and, ah, the average buyer was a little bit older. And so Africa, which one better it’s been. It’s been a long time, like a year and 1/2 plus. And ah, I was surprised, like the percent would work better even if it was just like 5% and the dollar amount, which would be usually be like 35 to $50. Um, you know wouldn’t work as well. But, you know, I tried that same process with, say, like Auto Care Brand and the dollar amount would work better, even if it was only like it was like one or $2 that we get clipped more than if it was 5 to 10%. I think it was like 10%. So

[0:27:02] George Reid:
that’s so interesting, because I’d, I’ll prove, is he learned around or my mindset towards pricing discounts and coupons? Waas. Let’s say you’re selling and ice, and before $21 you would always work in easy multiples of how people could subtract that. So instead of saying 30% off, you’d say like $7 off because part of the multiples of seven simple things that that so it’s easier math for people, which is mawr kind of ingrained into them. Whereas if you were, like 50% off people Or perhaps we like 30% of this is you have to figure out a little bit more, and they would never know an exact figure that was, was my mind set off the fixed dollar amount where it’s an easy calculation. People can do it like snap without thinking, but I guess it depends on your exact price point. But yeah, that’s such an interesting. And that’s just a manual process that are you running coupon side by side, or you doing two weeks on Warner than two weeks? Another?

[0:28:04] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I would do the exact same time, period, even if it’s like a random number of days, like 11 days, like just chock your sales before the coupon. 11 days to 11 days of 5% often do 11 days of whatever the equivalent of the dollar amount from so

[0:28:21] George Reid:
interesting, and that in that strategy there, do you ever look to take that from off of Amazon as well? Because I think one of the things we talked about a lot inside of the academy, inside of whenever I’m having conversations with clients is the importance of driving traffic from off of Amazon. This is a big play now, in terms of manipulating that during your little bitsy picking up touchpoints like your e mails near your chatbots subscribers. A lot of that there is your encouraging the sail through a coupon in that kind of journey you’re sending them on. Is that something that you’re also focusing on? I have folks who don t have any comic comment. Some how that process works for yourself. So previous friends.

[0:29:04] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, you know, I’ve never been involved in that part. Like I have zero experience. I know it’s really popular. I know. I know a lot of people in the supplements space do it. Um, it’s not something that we do at my company, and I haven’t done it before. Um, trying to think, Yeah,

[0:29:22] George Reid:
it’s really it’s very reason why they’ve Bean hesitant to do that. Or is there any reason? I mean, it’s completely your company. Let’s say for arguments sake, you set up your own brand. Is that something you would look to double down on giving everything. Do you know?

[0:29:37] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I’m inexperienced, but seeing that it works for so many other people, If I had my own brand, which hopefully you know, the planets to do my own side brand I would be looking at every way possible a song as it’s in my opinion, ethical I don’t want to be doing ah, cheating nonsense that I do. You have in, uh but, uh, yeah, I think that sounds really interesting. Like if there is ways to do that, I think people should be doing, I think, some brands. Even when I was an account manager, they don’t want to send any external traffic to Amazon 95% of time.

[0:30:18] George Reid:
Is that because when we get a lot like no, no, no, I want to send it to my website where I can make the extra money right, And it’s a continuous battle because we’re like, That’s fine. But what? Your long term gold here is your long term goal. Teoh have okay website sales, or do you want to be ranked on page one for the top five terms for your product on Amazon is that your gold will if actual goal, you need to feed the beast right and work on the premise off. Slowly invest in. We’re gonna lose 12% or whatever it happens to be by sending it to Amazon. But we’re investing that long term growth, right?

[0:30:58] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, I think you just have to look at it as a marketing costs. I think people get too hung up on the costs, which, within reason, if you have like, a 1 50 or 200% costs, you know, that’s not really very good. Um, yeah. I think if you look at it like if you take your emotions out of the situation, which a lot of times it’s a small brand, you’re a little bit more emotionally attached in your a little bit more than with that money, cause it was literally coming out of your pocket. But if you like, detach yourself from the situation and say, Okay, I’m gonna put this amount of money towards advertising or let’s just say marketing, um or I want to put this percentage of my revenue back into marketing. If you look at that loss of your margin as more of a marketing costs, which it is. It’s maybe indirect. And most people don’t see it that way. But it’s definitely a marketing costs or a marketing offered to us. Then. You know, people should look at it that way, just like okay, I’m setting aside this, you know, Let’s just say $1000 from easy math like that is gonna be toe, you know, push this product on Amazon. Whether it’s, you know, through these Champ Pots are or a higher costs something. And if it doesn’t work, you just learn from it in, get better.

[0:32:18] George Reid:
Trying to the trustee, right? Yeah. And it brings me nice on to another question, which you touched bomb briefly. About some point in time. You’d love to kind of set up that side side brand of your own short. Gonna go great. That being said, if you had $10,000 right now to build on Amazon business, you’ve already got your product. Okay, What would be the first thing you then invest in?

[0:32:43] Joshua Justice:
Well, that would be assuming that I have best in class digital assets that all the images look very um, the A plus content looks like the best in the world in my product category. Uh, I would be using it to spend on advertising. Um, you know, I don’t know enough about the Facebook side and these other you know, Instagram. I would definitely try that. So it’s safe. I 10,000. I would your market $1000 for things you know, I don’t know about maybe hire a freelancer to work on that that is more experienced and And just test the waters, which I will say when you are testing the waters. Since I’ve been on both sides, you have to have some reasonable expectations going in. Uh, you know, So I feel like I have reasonable ones just to test it. Like, is there some potential here? You know, if you get to know my product a little more that you can do a better job, you know, in three months and now it’s been on sponsor products. Um, if I have reviews, I don’t know, I would send 10 products out used. Fine.

[0:33:49] George Reid:
I was gonna say, Would you be looking to a big stretch to right now? What works very well is obviously rebates and promotions. Would you look to do kind of that giveaway strategy and go right Well, let’s earmark another 800 bucks or whatever for giveaways and heavy promotions. Or is that something you look to avoid?

[0:34:11] Joshua Justice:
You know, I think I would do the giveaway thing. I’m not. I’m not really up to date with the latest news and Don’s what’s allowed, what can work. But that’s before that big, massive changing. Ah, changing of the terms of service was in 2018 or 2017. That’s what I did at brands. You know what it was. I forgot the name, there was a couple of them, and it’s like, Yeah, let’s enough. We would have a budget of like, let’s send out 40 50 products of this product and it with my first brand that I did in 2015. That’s what I did like my product was number three ranked against some heavy hitters and how they stuck with it. I would probably be selling really well to this day because there was, like, a brand that was kind of private, labeled I was like mine that came up right after me. And so we were always, like right, three and four and five right in that spot, and that person is still up there. Probably retired there, probably living in Thailand. Her picking a margarita while I’m working pretty got time for my kid, you know? So, yeah,

[0:35:15] George Reid:
it could have bean, right? Yeah. Yeah, you’re all right. Like you need to be on point with what’s deemed a gray area on what’s what’s deemed kind of to be completely for Jalin. Andi is gonna get you kicked off, and I think people are still utilizing rebates to great success. But it’s just being a little bit coy about these things to ensure that your war not just being blatant. Like we give a product away with Daniel to come in so you can get another 50% off your next one if you leave. It’s a five star review on being very obvious about it. Um, and it’s also understanding. Okay, let’s not take the piss here and just throttle this hard until we get to page warn on every single search term. I think he’s just gonna be a little bit careful and Amazonian to get more intelligent about how they’re picking these things up. But the wrath, certain stretches out. But the moment I know seller tools are doing some great things with rebates and automating that process and creating a degree of separation off you’ve got you as a brand and then Amazon trying to create a better divide between the two. So there’s no clean data for Amazon to be like This is very obviously a full price sale, which they then re funding. But it’s still at this state would be something that hardly recommend to get that kind of immediate kick off with the ranking.

[0:36:46] Joshua Justice:
Yeah, you know, because you know, I started, you know, from the bottom, basically doing everything myself. I don’t really power problem when people do it for like, 15 reviews are, you know, 20 reviews. It’s like when you see people doing like 100 203 100 reviews and you’re just like okay, just because you know you’re going to get those negative reviews. So in fact, I would say that you need negative reviews on your you’re listening because people, when I look at our product, I’m looking at 12 and three star reviews like, What’s the average Joe saying about this product and ah, you know that’s where you’re gonna find if it’s a good product or not. You know, like I got Ah, what is it called like? Ah, auxiliary cord. And like, it was so hard to find a product that didn’t have fake reviews. And so they want, you know, I looked at all the negative reviews and they were all true like it. The court went out like super fast, and but it was like a 4.8 star like 5000 reviews. And and, uh so it’s like, yeah, you know, get some, get some reviews to get started and then kind of ditch that I just let people leave reviews, you know, like there was a review. I got where the person, like, say, like, Oh, this product isn’t vegan at all and I’m like, Oh, I like message my team like haze. You know something? I mess up. Somebody put that this product was vegan and it was it, you know, and you respond to the customer. But you know, customers like when you see a negative review, you see what the manufacturer says. Like that’s just life way

[0:38:26] George Reid:
made a mistake, Typo. So

[0:38:28] Joshua Justice:
that’s why I think, you know, get some reviews to get started. And then when you just see this extreme stuff like there’s one supplement brand that is really good at getting reviews and, ah, they’ll give you a free bottle and then they have a website where, like you click on a five start like they’ll ask you to rate. If you click on a five star, it’ll take you to Amazon. And then if you click on like three or lower, it will take you to like a different portal website. And now that that brand has, like six listings that have, like a combine 25 30,000 reviews, not a cool two star review on any those those things combine So some people of life reached next level. I don’t know how they do it, but

[0:39:16] George Reid:
yeah, I mean, that’s possible. Those listing and wanted to know how you do that you can obviously do it through kind of chatbots toe Achieve that. I think some of it is is damage prevention, right? People will go leave a two star review or a one star review because something that was completely out of your control or something that could be easily fits like couldn’t open the box easily or whatever. If you are able to get a little bit of customer service in there beforehand and go OK, here’s a quick demo video of how you can set up properly. It looks like you’ve actually set up slightly. Roll on that way. You’re taking that person who was angry, pissed off, going to leave an egg to review. You’re going well, let’s nip a little bit more and go. It was our fault, admittedly, because we should have given better instructions. But here you go and you’re turning that experience or negative to positive. So there are pros and cons of that. I think there’s lots of craft beers and some sort people doing, but you write it in general rule of thumb, get your 21 social proof, which I use is kind of like magic number. Get to that point and then let what will be will be ensuring that you responding to those those reviews as well. Okay, final final question for you, Josh. Some content of your conscious of your time today and asked everybody this. But I’m always intrigued by the responses on dure obviously the first guest we’ve had on which is from from a large brand as well. So it’s gonna be interesting to your

[0:40:42] Joshua Justice:
thoughts. What do you

[0:40:43] George Reid:
think? The biggest threats when Amazon businesses. Right now?

[0:40:47] Joshua Justice:
Yeah. You know, I did listen, No, but your podcast for this and one of them had what I would say I was a say Amazon. Um, you know, I think sometimes they’re very slow to take care of bad actors, you know, like I mentioned like there’s a lot of bad actors in our space. There’s a lot of brands that you know, you there’s one that’s like a top ranking product, and if you go on their reviews, there’s actually a word cloud that says free Bottle because they’ve given away So Maney three bottles that it’s like in that many reviews. And, uh so I think, no. If people no longer trust Amazon, it’s gonna be really difficult for new brands to get established. And of course, it’s harder. It gets harder every year. Um, but I think I feel like Amazon doesn’t move as fast as I would prefer, and I’ll be a lot of people would, but I think they gradually are, you know, putting things together. Like I think it was earlier this year when they were putting together a team to combat fraud. Um, and you could see it in all their job listings. You could see their Hying, like, you know, 20 positions for this and and, Ah, but I don’t know, I feel bullish. You know, I feel like I used to be in the camp of being pretty negative, Nancy about, you know, I’m focusing on the problems of Amazon, but at the end of the day, like I make a great living, I work from home. Um, it’s created a lot of opportunity, you know, It makes a lot of people happy. You look at the pandemic. A lot of people I couldn’t buy my son a gift anywhere. Like I was looking for a bike and not a room from Wal Mart. And Amazon was the only place that had the bike for me. And then it wasn’t It was faulty. Just so easy to just get another one replaces, you know? So So I just think, you know, if they just continue to try to pull down these bad actors, I think, honestly, they need to hire some people with street smarts that come from the probable sigh like if they really wanna find long term how help With that? I even I think I emailed Jeff Bezos that one time I

[0:43:01] George Reid:
had a few drinks that with

[0:43:03] Joshua Justice:
no like Look, here’s four listings that all use fake reviews that your AI is not going to use. You know, Amazon. Hire some of the smartest people in the world, but I don’t know about you, but in my life I’ve worked with some very smart people. But they’re very smart at like what they’re smart about, and they don’t know enough about other things. And I think I don’t I don’t know who they have hired. I would just say they need some people with street smarts if they wanna.

[0:43:29] George Reid:
If you did, you include your CV on the email now on your salary expectations and share expectations. You

[0:43:36] Joshua Justice:
know, I just say, like, hey, big reviews, you need toe hire someone. Ah, you know, these are issues that if you understand top of things, you really need to have somebody that’s a consultant or right in the thick of it. and I got a message back from their executive team. Like to sing like thank you for bringing this to our attention. And your

[0:43:57] George Reid:
salary expectations are too high. Josh, we’re very sorry. This isn’t gonna be going forward.

[0:44:02] Joshua Justice:
Yeah. You know, I know some people who work for Amazon that work 40 hours a week. So that worked. 50 and some, like 70. Uh, it just depends on the team. You’re on. You know, like I have an advertising rep that I get to talk to you every couple weeks, and, you know, and she had nothing but great things to say. She loved it. She got, you know, a family. And she had nothing but good things to say. So

[0:44:25] George Reid:
good man. Okay, Josh, thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to join the Sedale. Really, really appreciate it. And lots of interesting thoughts there, which which I think will be a lot of valleys people. So I’m sure we’ll have you on again in the future. Quite like the idea circling guests around is the landscape in the ecosystem changes, you know, I’m sure six months from now you’ll have lots of other different things to say as well.

[0:44:50] Joshua Justice:
Me? Yeah, and I think I can, you know, I know quite a few people that switch from agency cited in house, and it’s really great having experience on both sides, so I can I can Well, yeah,

[0:45:07] George Reid:
that would be great to have some of the people on that that Andi also what I’ll do for kind of the list. It’s all at your linked in profile as well. It because kind of follow a little bit. I think you put some great content up on, but they can also message you to hear what those I think you said. You use four tools. Andi. All of the data was wrong, So let’s not naming shaming today. But if they want to hear what those four tools are, they continue directly and find out because that’s quite an interesting thought process. While I made a note to ask you about at the end,

[0:45:37] Joshua Justice:
we’ll you know what’s funny is that one of the people is very active in social media and connection only in, But when I was like trying to work through these problems, their email I wasn’t using my email that showed my name. I was using a company email and the person was kind of rude and like in Patiala. And I was just like and my compass is open. Yeah, I was like, I was like, This is awkward. You should treat everybody, you know, the really should be. So I was kind of surprised, but yeah, I won’t even shave people. I don’t want to get in the way of people making. They’re making their living, you know?

[0:46:18] George Reid:
Indeed. I just pleasure speaking a man, and I look forward to having on again soon. Thanks for your time and speak to you about staying power.

[0:46:26] Joshua Justice:
All right. Enjoy your morning.

[0:46:27] George Reid:
Hey, guys. Just a quick one. If you are enjoying a podcast on either have some actionable next steps or new ideas I’d really appreciate if you could one subscribe to the show and leave us review. These are really, really important to us. As you probably know, being in the Amazon world on two. If you’re looking for additional support with your brand, head over to the website. It’s always day one dot co dot UK. We’ve got links to other Resource is as often our guys speaks in

1 comment on “EPISODE 9: Joshua Justice
  1. Bronwyn Reid says:

    George is interviewing really great guests who are experienced professionals that share valuable strategies for ecommerce sellers.

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